Jump to content

Photo

Making Hieratic Gishki work well. (Or: Wind-Up Loop, eat your heart out)


  • Please log in to reply
5 replies to this topic

#1
TSD

TSD

    Junior Member

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

A triad of card abuse! These completely separate archetypes have quite the potent combination; this topic shall describe the play in detail. Without further delay, with the show!:

The Hieratic Gishki Messier 7 loop can easily cripple an enemy, even on the first turn. Most hieratic gishki decks rely on activating a ritual as soon as possible. For those who are unfamiliar with the basic idea, here is an example of what a build may look like (or, rather, it is my current deck).


Example Build



An explanation of the loop and how it impacts each player
1.) Have the following 3+ cards in your hand: Evigishki Gustkraken, Gishki Aquamirror, and a Hieratic monster.
2.) Ritual Summon Gustkraken by tributing the Hieratic; activate Gustkraken's effect (-1 to opponent's hand); special summon a normal dragon from deck/hand/grave.
3.) Overlay for Constellar Ptolemys Messier 7; detach Gustkraken; activate the effect to return one of the following from your graveyard to your hand:Gishki Shadow (if you need another Mirror), Su/Tefnuit, or Abyss/Manju if a normal summon is still possible.
4.) Activate Aquamirror's effect in your graveyard to return it to the deck and add a Gustkraken from your graveyard to your hand.
5.) Repeat 2-4 if possible; two more Messier Summons are possible if there is an extra Gustkraken/Rites in your hand. (Since you will need to detach a normal dragon before beginning the third cycle unless you run three normals.) Alternatively, bounce a Messier from field if you have an extra hieratic and don't need a mirror.



The net change to each player and the field per cycle
-1 to your hand
-1 to opponent's hand (and reveals another card)
+1 to field (Messier 7)


Assuming the Messier(s) survive until your next turn, they may use their effect again to bounce another card from your grave, a Messier to the extra for additonal cycles, and/or an enemy monster.


That, of course, is an amazing trade. So why isn't everybody using this deck?
1.) It requires three components to start. This can cause major consistency issues.
2.) 2-3 Normal Dragons must be included and may be semi-dead draws.
3.) Messier 7 must eventually be bounced back to the extra deck via its effect or avarice in order to continue the loop. Otherwise the play becomes a -2 to your hand for a different rank 6. (Not a terrible trade, but not ideal either.)
4.) Because this is a deck-type that utilizes many special summons quickly, draw power is limited. (From Duality/Cardcar)
5.) Tons of searchers are required to help alleviate the aforementioned consistency issues; subsequently, there is little room for traps and cards not directly related to the loop. (Limits alternative moves and defensive options.)
6.) Messier 7 is currently OCG-only. =/



Searcher balance and how not to get screwed
Well, if there is one thing that can totally ruin this deck's day, it is only holding 2/3rds of the required formula in your hand. Draw power is also limited, so the right mixture of Ritual Monster / Ritual Spell / Hieratic Monster or equivalents obtains priority one status. Take my deck, for instance:

Ritual Monster or Equivalent (11)
[3]Evigishki Gustkraken
[3]Gishki Abyss
[3]Manju of the Ten Thousand Hands
[2]Preparation of Rites

Ritual Spell or Equivalent (12-14)
[3]Gishki Aquamirror
[3]Gishki Shadow
[3]Gishki Abyss
[3]Manju of the Ten Thousand Hands
[2]Preparation of Rites (if Aquamirror in grave)

Hieratic Monster or Equivalent (9)
[3]Hieratic Dragon of Tefnuit
[3]Hieratic Dragon of Su
[3]Hieratic Seal of Convocation

So, we have a 11:12:9 ratio by conservative estimate. At first glance, this may seem unbalanced. And, to some extent, it is. However, there are a few factors that mitigate this inequality:
1.)Gishki Shadow must be in the grave in order to effectively recycle Aquamirror without a normal summon. (or Rites in hand)
2.)Gustkraken can always be recycled to hand via Aquamirror unless you decide not to detach him from Messier.
3.)There is no simple solution for increasing the hieratic ratio. However, you only need one (Messier Recycle) if you have spare mirrors in hand.


I'd like input on this ratio and if/how it should be adjusted. The current setup feels like a nice balance to me, but more ideas are never bad.


My decklist for any interested party


Deck



Conclusions
Enemy hand destruction and 2700 Attack beatsticks? Boss.
Xyz Rank 6 swarming with Atum/Gaia backup options? Beastly.
Relatively complex moves that require specific cards? Boy, I hope my initial hand doesn't suck.


Discuss. =D

#2
Managarn

Managarn

    Member

i believe its you i fought today with my dinohero deck.

I must say im very impressed by the deck. I was lucky enough that ab zero is a decent counter as it wipes your field(though you can easily get it back with the right cards) And the hand loop is decent w/o being totally broken a la winds up.

but ya you can easily go into dead hand as you said. I cant tell you what id change to add consistency as id have to play it myself to figure out. But keep workings on consistency im really loving this deck.

#3
TSD

TSD

    Junior Member

i believe its you i fought today with my dinohero deck.

I must say im very impressed by the deck. I was lucky enough that ab zero is a decent counter as it wipes your field(though you can easily get it back with the right cards) And the hand loop is decent w/o being totally broken a la winds up.

but ya you can easily go into dead hand as you said. I cant tell you what id change to add consistency as id have to play it myself to figure out. But keep workings on consistency im really loving this deck.


Yes, zero can be a real downer for this deck (and many others).

I've tweaked a few things since yesterday, namely -1 Tragoedia to the side and +1 A Wingbeat of Giant Dragon to the main. Backrow-heavy decks cause a ton of trouble for the ritual spamming. Tefnuit or Atum's SS can be used to wipe the field with Wingbeat before making a push play, so I believe it will be worthwhile. Of course, taking a hand-trap from a build that has limited defensive options is perilous too. Maybe -1 Upstart +1 Trag could be viable.

As for the consistency issue: I am still comfortable with the current set of cards. It feels decent most of the time.

#4
Avenger

Avenger

    Veteran Member

  • Team:Teamless.
  • Location:Aurora
In that example build, what's the reasoning for using Manju over Vision Gishki?

#5
Chaos_Blaze

Chaos_Blaze

    Member

  • Team:[YF] Team YugiohForums.com
  • Country: Country Flag
  • Location:New York
Is there a reason that you're not running Gishki Vision or Salvage?

#6
TSD

TSD

    Junior Member

Vision is unnecessary because Gustkraken can be recycled to hand via the Aquamirror bounce and (with manju), there are still 11 Gustkraken/equivalents. Salvage is not run because manju is used over vision. (6 vs 9 valid targets)

If we substituted 3 Manju for 3 Vision, the searching ratio changes to the following:
11:9:9.

So at the benefit of using three normal summons vs six, we lose 3 spell searchers. Salvage is a nice +1 but runs into consistency problems with Messier's Recycle effect and kind of screws over Avarice. (Which is useful to bounce Messier to the extra)

Even if one ran 2 Manju and 1 Vision, that is still silly because Abyss can search out Gustkraken directly.

Hope that clears up my position.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

Welcome to the Dueling Network Forums!

To sign in, use your duelingnetwork.com account. If you do not have one, register here.