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Solved  Thunder King Rai-Oh vs Stardust Dragon


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#1
Keghart

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Hello. I already searched for this question on this forum, and didn't found any matches, so I'm posting here.

Just in case, these are the effects of both cards, from wikia:

Thunder King:

Neither player can add cards from their Deck to their hand except by drawing them. During either player's turn, when your opponent would Special Summon a monster: You can send this face-up card to the Graveyard; negate the Special Summon, and if you do, destroy it.


Stardust:

When a Spell, Trap, Spell/Trap effect, or Effect Monster's effect is activated that destroys a card(s) on the field: You can Tribute this card; negate the activation and destroy it. During the End Phase, if this card negated an effect this way during this turn: You can Special Summon this card from your Graveyard.


I know Thunder King can negate Stardust's summon without any response from it. However, what if Stardust is already on the field, properly summoned, and so is Thunder King, then I try to xyz summon Gem-Knight Pearl, for example, and my opponent says he'll negate the xyz summon? Can I tribute Stardust Dragon to negate Thunder King's effect?

Stardust's effect says it can negate any effect that would destroy a monster, and Thunder King's effect says so, but can I really negate it?

#2
Unorthodoxical-Princ

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Hello. I already searched for this question on this forum, and didn't found any matches, so I'm posting here.

Just in case, these are the effects of both cards, from wikia:

Thunder King:


Stardust:


I know Thunder King can negate Stardust's summon without any response from it. However, what if Stardust is already on the field, properly summoned, and so is Thunder King, then I try to xyz summon Gem-Knight Pearl, for example, and my opponent says he'll negate the xyz summon? Can I tribute Stardust Dragon to negate Thunder King's effect?

Stardust's effect says it can negate any effect that would destroy a monster, and Thunder King's effect says so, but can I really negate it?


"Thunder King Rai-Oh" activates in the summon negation window, where the monster in question is not considered yet on the field, ergo "Stardust Dragon" cannot activate either.

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#3
JRHUnknown

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Isn't it more that it's not a confirmed destruction so Stardust cannot activate? You could for example chain a MST to a Royal Oppression that's negating a summon?

Reread Stardust and while what I said is a factor, it does need to be on the field for Stardust to save it.

Edited by JRHUnknown, 13 September 2012 - 11:53 AM.

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#4
Keghart

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I'm still confused, so Stardust can't negate 'cause the monster is not on the field when Thunder King effect activates or it can't negate 'cause is not a confirmed destruction?

#5
Unorthodoxical-Princ

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I'm still confused, so Stardust can't negate 'cause the monster is not on the field when Thunder King effect activates or it can't negate 'cause is not a confirmed destruction?


Not on the field yet.

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#6
Keghart

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Ok, thanks. I was researching, and Thunder King also can only negate inherent special summon effects, like Cyber Dragon, or The Tricky, but can't negate the special summon from cards such as recruiters as Mystic Tomato and Giant Rat and Monster Reborn, Call of The Haunted, etc. Why?

#7
JRHUnknown

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Because no card or effect can negate a Summon via effect due to timing. (At least in the TCG)

Once the effect of, lets say Call of the Haunted, has resolved the monster has been Successfully Summoned and it is too late to negate this.

If you want to negate this you need to negate the card/effect that's causing the Special Summon.

Edited by JRHUnknown, 13 September 2012 - 12:46 PM.

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