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Solved  Mermail Abysslinde and Abysspike Missing Timing


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#1
Warren Peace

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Ok I will take this slow and try to explain everything that happened as clear as possible. Before I begin though I want to point out I am not calling out anyone or picking on any admins I am simply asking this question after I have talked to some friends and gave it some more thought and would like a better explanation.

Yesterday while dueling I encountered a scenario and this is what happened:

Me: I special summoned my Mermail Abyssmegalo and sent Atlantean Dragoons and Atlantean Marksman for cost. I activated Mermail Abyssmegalo's effect to search my deck to add Abyss-Sphere from my deck to my hand. Then I activated my Dragoons and Marksman's effect, Having Marksman in the middle of the chain so Dragoons was the last thing to happen.

My Atlantean Marksman used his effect to destroy the only card on my opponents side of the field, a face down monster. The face down monster happened to be Mermail Abysslinde. Then after Marksman's effect had resolved I activated Dragoons effect to search for a Sea Serpent type monster to add to my hand.

My opponent special summons Mermail Abysspike from Mermail Abysslinde's effect and he says "effect of Mermail Abysspike" in attempt to activate his effect.

I replied saying "No Mermail Abysspike will miss his timing due to the fact that his summon was not the final thing to happen". "He can't activate his effect".

My opponent disagreed, An argument ensued and a admin was called. ( I will only give the admins name if requested by another admin or head admin. I do not want to call anyone out or belittle anyone not even my opponent. I have respect for all the admins who are on this site)

The Admin arrives and we both state our cases. The admin asked for us to give him "1 min guys" and there was silence as we waited for the admin to check the logs and see what happened. When the admin came back he said " Yes, Mermail Abysspike does miss his timing" confirming what I had said.

The opponent was of course not happy with this and continued to state his point and after about another minute or two the admin then says " Oh well I guess I missed something, Pike does not miss his timing" I asked him to explain and he said " Linde is done resolving when Pike is summoned and therefore the last thing to happen was Pike's summon and his effect would activate".

I disagreed with this answer but to stop further arguments I admitted defeat and left the game.

So now here is what I was under the impression how it worked. (also this is how it was ruled at my regionals, YCS Miami and Austin, and the last few admins who I have called on previous issues like this to the best of my knowledge)

EXAMPLE #1 Since Atlantean Marksman destroyed Mermail Abysslinde and sent her to the graveyard she starts a chain. Her effect would be on chain link 1. She then special summons Mermail Abysspike to be on chain link 2. Since chains resolve backwards and and the last thing to happen was in fact NOT Mermail Abysspike's effect but the resolving effect of Mermail Abysslinde, Then Mermail Abysspike would lose timing for his effect.

EXAMPLE #2 Since Atlantean Marksman was on chain link 2 of 3 and Atlantean Dragoons actually being the final link in the chain would not Mermail Abysslinde miss her timing to summon another Mermail monster? Since the last thing to happen is Atlantean Dragoons effect? Just like Stardust Dragon can not activate his effect in response to a Atlantean Heavy Infantry in the middle of a chain?

I would like to know the correct answers to this because I have been given false rulings before (everyone is human and makes mistakes I get that) but the Admin agreed with me when first looking at the scenario and then changed his mind later I really don't know which ruling was right or wrong.

I hope this makes sense I have a regionals coming up and this is something I would like to know beforehand.


Here are the links to each monster in question:

http://yugioh.wikia....rmail_Abysspike

http://yugioh.wikia....mail_Abysslinde

http://yugioh.wikia....ail_Abyssmegalo

http://yugioh.wikia....antean_Marksman

http://yugioh.wikia....antean_Dragoons

http://yugioh.wikia...._Heavy_Infantry

#2
!             Gianus

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EXAMPLE #1 Since Atlantean Marksman destroyed Mermail Abysslinde and sent her to the graveyard she starts a chain. Her effect would be on chain link 1. She then special summons Mermail Abysspike to be on chain link 2. Since chains resolve backwards and and the last thing to happen was in fact NOT Mermail Abysspike's effect but the resolving effect of Mermail Abysslinde, Then Mermail Abysspike would lose timing for his effect.


Linde starts a new chain. Marksman (and Dragoons) has already resolved when the effect of Linde activates. The monster summoned by Linde will not lose its timing regardless of the Chain Links.

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#3
Zeh

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There are multiple chains being formed, this isn't all occuring within one chain.

Chain 1: Cl1 Dragoons, Cl2 Marksman, Cl3 Megalo

Megalo resolves and searches Sphere. Marksman resolves destroying Abysslinde. Note that Linde is an "If...you can" effect, and therefore won't miss timing. Also note that Linde can't activate in the middle of a chain resolving, so it will wait until the next available opportunity to do so (i.e. after this chain finishes resolving). Dragoons resolves adding the Sea-Serpent card to your hand.

Chain 2: Cl1 Linde

Linde forms a new chain and summons Abyssspike.

Chain 3: Cl1 Abyssspike

The last thing to happen is Abyssspike's summon via Abysslinde and therefore it will not miss the timing.

Edited by Zeh, 06 April 2013 - 12:00 AM.

[3:16:23 AM] F. Barkles the Magnificent: your first mistake was thinking

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#4
apc

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You have to wait for your chain involving Abyssmegalo to resolve first. You can't interrupt an already resolving chain.

Chain link 1: Dragoons
Chain link 2: Marksman
Chain link 3: Abyssmegalo

After this chain finishes, Linde activates in an entirely new chain. Linde does not miss timing because her effect says "If....you can". Only "when... you can" effects miss timing.

Chain link 1: Linde

Linde summons Pike and then pike can use his effect

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#5
Warren Peace

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Then if that's the case on my opponents end phase I activate Abyss-Sphere and sphere dies along with a special summoned abyss linde why does the Abysspike Miss his timing then as well? Or at least that was the ruling I was given.

Edited by Warren Peace, 06 April 2013 - 12:02 AM.


#6
Zeh

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Then if that's the case on my opponents end phase I activate Abyss-Sphere and sphere dies along with a special summoned abyss linde why does the Abysspike Miss his timing then as well? Or at least that was the ruling I was given.


Spike would not miss the timing in the End Phase scenario you just provided.

[3:16:23 AM] F. Barkles the Magnificent: your first mistake was thinking

Zhadow: i love how zeh is like "sure, gonna brutalize your wishes and dreams either way"

[8:00:23 PM] Mario: id be really embarassed right now
[8:00:25 PM] Mario: if i knew what shame was


#7
Warren Peace

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There are multiple chains being formed, this isn't all occuring within one chain.

Chain 1: Cl1 Dragoons, Cl2 Marksman, Cl3 Megalo

Megalo resolves and searches Sphere. Marksman resolves destroying Abysslinde. Note that Linde is an "If...you can" effect, and therefore won't miss timing. Also note that Linde can't activate in the middle of a chain resolving, so it will wait until the next available opportunity to do so (i.e. after this chain finishes resolving). Dragoons resolves adding the Sea-Serpent card to your hand.

Chain 2: Cl1 Linde

Linde forms a new chain and summons Abyssspike.

Chain 3: Cl1 Abyssspike

The last thing to happen is Abyssspike's summon via Abysslinde and therefore it will not miss the timing.

The wiki says that if Pike is summoned as a chain link two or higher he will miss his timing is this not chain link 2?

Spike would not miss the timing in the End Phase scenario you just provided.

If you say so

#8
!             Gianus

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Those are different Chains. Not Chain Links.

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#9
Warren Peace

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Those are different Chains. Not Chain Links.

Either way Linde is still on chain link 1 while Pike is one chain like 2 thats my question from what the wiki is saying about it

#10
!             Gianus

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Either way Linde is still on chain link 1 while Pike is one chain like 2 thats my question from what the wiki is saying about it

Linde starts a new Chain
Spike starts a new Chain.

They are both CL 1 and do not miss (Linde cannot miss its timing either way).

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#11
Warren Peace

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The wiki says that if Pike is summoned as a chain link two or higher he will miss his timing is this not chain link 2?

If you say so

I guess you are saying that Pike starts his entirely new chain ?

Linde starts a new Chain
Spike starts a new Chain.

They are both CL 1 and do not miss (Linde cannot miss its timing either way).

I guess it does then. I was given some false rulings before and confused me. I understand now thanks

#12
!             Gianus

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I guess you are saying that Pike starts his entirely new chain ?

Yes, if that will make you understand what I'm saying.

If Linde is activates as CL1, which it most of the time is unless there are for example 2 destroyed at once, then the monster summoned by it will not miss its timing since the last thing to happen was the summoning of that Monster by Linde's effect.
The Monster summoned will start a new Chain as CL 1.

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#13
Warren Peace

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Yes, if that will make you understand what I'm saying.

If Linde is activates as CL1, which it most of the time is unless there are for example 2 destroyed at once, then the monster summoned by it will not miss its timing since the last thing to happen was the summoning of that Monster by Linde's effect.
The Monster summoned will start a new Chain as CL 1.

Ok. Thanks for your time




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