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Mermail Atlantean discussion


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#1
blackmustard123

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Mermails took the meta by storm in Abyss Rising, and were the best deck before lord of tachyon galaxy, no doubt about it. Despite having a huge reliance on the graveyard, it still managed to beat out every other type of deck with a good degree of consistancy. Now that Lord of the tachyon galaxy, Mermails have a challenger to their throne, in Prophecy and Elemental Dragons. Mermails haven't been doing well in Japan since these two decks came out, but they don't have Mermail Abyssteus. With Evilswarm being a problem for mermails and Prophecy and Elemental dragons having amazing consistancy, Mermails are no longer the best deck hands down. That being said, given some new gifts in the new booster pack, it can certainly still compete.


Everyone knows the basic core of monsters (if you don't then open the spoilers), but now Mermails have access to Tidal, elemental dragon of cascades. This card is basically a free level 7 water monsters every turn, allowing you to bring out rank 7 monsters with greater ease than any deck other than elemental dragons. Furthermore, Tidal and his baby version let you discard atlantean monsters and Abyssgunde as costs, allowing you to use their effects. Tidal can manipulate the graveyard to amazing levels, as it can drop 3 cards in the grave or get rid of 1, 2, or 3 monsters from the graveyard depending on if its in your hand or in the grave itself. This level of manipulation lets you summon Moulinglacia with even greater ease, and of course, Moulinglacia is still searchable via Dragoons. Lastly, mermails got a boost through the release of mecha phantom beast dragosack, and with Cascades they become amazing at spamming rank 7s, though not as well as Elemental Dragons.
In my opnion mono-mermails are still a better choice than Genex mermails, even though ophion is a pain. If you go first you can summon Abyssgaois with some degree of ease, and I'd rather run 3 breakthrough skill to deal with ophion and LaDD. Also, heavy infantry deals with ophion and because you run 3 you could likely drop it with Abysspike or Abyssturge, both of which are searchable via linde which is searchable via sphere. Lastly, you can summon Deepsea diva (also searchable via dragoons) and get out heavy Infantry, allowing you to xyz into armor Kappa (currently ocg only), which is a water monster with a detatch cost, allowing you to pop Ophion or any other trouble cards.
Also, Abyssgaois hurts elemental dragons immensely, since they need two outs to it in a turn. Once you deplete their resources (which seems like never, but it happens) Abyss Dweller is also really good against them. You can also side in a single treeborn frog and drop it with Tidal to stop LaDD. Prophecy is a problem however, but I wouldnt call it a bad match-up.
So, thoughts on Mermails? I feel like they are still a force in the meta and with the ability rank 7 toolbox and get rid of whatever your opponent has on the field. They may not be dominant, but they are certainly still viable.

Edited by ck49, 15 May 2013 - 10:25 PM.


#2
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Mermails are still a good deck. It's not like they were hit by the ban list or anything yet. The reason not many people use them in OCG is because Evilswarm and Dragon Ruler match-up is bad for them.

I expect them to be in the top 5 in this order:
1. Dragon rulers
2. Prophecy
3. Evilswarm
4. Mermails
5. Fire Fist

Out of those 5, mermails have the best match-up against prophecy and a mediocre one against fire fist. HOWEVER, i expect Mermail use to be just as limited in the TCG. Main reason to that is Prophecy being a super expensive deck. It wont be as common. Mermails could therefore drop out of the top 5 because most of the match-ups in the Top 5 arent gonna be good for them.
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#3
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Could you please change the title to reflect the hybrid build used or just put it in brackets? It really is one of the most misleading names in the game right now and has no true reflection on the deck since none of them are actually pure enough to be Mermail decks.

Also, bet something similar to this will top soon.
http://forum.dueling...ing-water-deck/

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#4
skullvarnish

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I'd expect the top decks to be a little more like:

E Dragons
Prophecy
Genex Atlantean Mermail
Fire Fist
Evilswarms


I'm sorry, but all of the decks have outs to Evilswarms. Fire Fists aren't even hurt by them.

In the case of GAM, they'll of course start running Undine again, which is why I listed them as GAM. Undine will be an out to Ophion, and it will allow for more derpy first turn plays, allowing it to almost keep up with the derpier decks above it.


Are you serious? I am the best player in the game today. I started out with a Kuriboh as my boss monster, and have since climbed up the ladder of success. I am willing to break my back having to carry a team. Some say that there is no "I" in 'team," but what if I am the entire team? I'll carry this team across the river, to Victory Island. We'll pull out the champagne, with the ladies surrounding us. With a cigar in my mouth, I'll deliver the final speech. Our pilgrimage is complete. Our lives are over. The perpetual euphoria has been reached. The impossible has happened. You ask yourself if what has just transpired can possibly be real. I am no miracle worker, but I do have heart. And sometimes with a little bit of heart and some imagination, the world is yours for the taking. -Inflation




Holy shit skullvarnish, give me classes on how to burn the fuck out of people like that PLEASE




#5
ck49

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Could you please change the title to reflect the hybrid build used or just put it in brackets? It really is one of the most misleading names in the game right now and has no true reflection on the deck since none of them are actually pure enough to be Mermail decks.

Also, bet something similar to this will top soon.
http://forum.dueling...ing-water-deck/

40 cards>60 cards, with the idea being that with 40 cards you have a 1.5x chance of drawing any given card you need. You only have 12 cards which you want to discard and 60 cards total, meaning you'll get an average of 1 card you want to discard per hand. That reduces Megalo's effectiveness by a lot, and Megalo is the best card of the deck. Abysssqual is medicore this format imo, and at most you need 1 since its searchable. Also, 3 pike, 3 salvage, 3 diva, 3 gunde seems like you have one or two too many of each, especially salvage, since you will be banishing from your grave to get out Tidal.

I'd expect the top decks to be a little more like:

E Dragons
Prophecy
Genex Atlantean Mermail
Fire Fist
Evilswarms


I'm sorry, but all of the decks have outs to Evilswarms. Fire Fists aren't even hurt by them.

In the case of GAM, they'll of course start running Undine again, which is why I listed them as GAM. Undine will be an out to Ophion, and it will allow for more derpy first turn plays, allowing it to almost keep up with the derpier decks above it.

I tried out GAM and didn't like it. It adds inconsistancies and slows the deck down. Mono-mermails are faster and without the genex engine I narrowed my deck down to 40 and still managed to add a couple Breathrough skill in. ophion isn't daunting if you have Armored Kappa, since you can use diva to get out of it, or BTS to get out of it, as well as having discard outlets (for infantry) in Abysspike, Turge, and Tidal, the former of which are searchable by linde. Of course you lose some blowout games to Evilswarm, but as you said, they seem to be inferior to the other top decks (I would disagree about Fire Fists, though) and this are bound to be played less after people realize this. Not to mention you will probably side heavily for the match-up.

What do you guys think is the optimal number of abyss-traps to run? I've (as you may notice) prefered to run a 40 card deck and that means running 2 sphere with 0 squall. If it gets to the point in a game where I need squal chances are I can't search for it with megalo anymore. Also, its so much easier to get out rank 7's with tidal that you no longer need an auto rank 7 trap card, you may as well run CoTH (which I'm considering). I've gotten to the points in games where I may want a third sphere, but you never really want to draw it in multiples, since its a slower card and this format everything has to do with being fast. i'm on the edge about adding a third sphere back into my deck or not.
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#6
t0phatt

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Ive played mermail decks with tidal and i havent won a single one T_T

#7
jrex6390

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I played Tidal Merlantean, i won e drag by luck, i boom out his dragosack in his very first turn using dragon ice plus infantry combo. That stop him open with a ladd. The next I otk him with 8000 dmg.

#8
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How does adding in Abyssbalaen fare? Good? Bad? I've heard that it's an okay card, but not one for Mermails, so I want to hear what people who play the deck think about it.
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#9
Geminia999

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How does adding in Abyssbalaen fare? Good? Bad? I've heard that it's an okay card, but not one for Mermails, so I want to hear what people who play the deck think about it.

Horrible and will never be able to successful activate. Mermails can't restore the hand besides Salvage and Emeral( which is a crap shoot anyways). He can't activate the effect unless under assanine circumstance, and whithout the eff he is worse than Leed as well. Useless.

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#10
TheMizBiz

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Mermail, in my opinion, is gonna be the best deck for the next 1 or 2 formats.

#11
notcleverusername

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How does adding in Abyssbalaen fare? Good? Bad? I've heard that it's an okay card, but not one for Mermails, so I want to hear what people who play the deck think about it.

If it's not good for Mermails, it's not good at all. Unlike the other "Ancients", as at least one person calls them, he specifically requires that you discard Mermails.
Anyways, he's not good for Mermails. You can extrapolate this to mean he is just bad.

Mermail, in my opinion, is gonna be the best deck for the next 1 or 2 formats.

So what happened to Judgment Prophecy and EDrags again?

Definitely one of my favorite decks, and one of the big reasons I love the WATER attribute as much as I do (other reasons being Frog and Gishki and Sharks and some other stuff). I've always been a fan of the idea of the grave as a second hand as well as plusing off of costs, so Mermails (even without Atlanteans, but especially with Atlanteans) have been a favorite deck of mine ever since I first picked them up, though unlike Geminia I waited a bit until they got more cards before I used 'em.
Too much fun to use. Gave me a reason to run Ice Barrier Geomancer, built 3 different Mermail/Atlantean decks within a month: Mermail Synchro, Mermail XYZ, and Mermail Tribute Summon (heck yea). I've just kept making more. Got at least 5 decks based on Mermails now, and some 3-4 have Atlanteans in 'em.

Edited by notcleverusername, 14 May 2013 - 10:41 PM.

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#12
Danny_Knight

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Mermails have some really game-breaking cards 2 use at practically no cost. Even when LTGY comes its not gonna stop a ton of duelists frokm playing mermail.
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#13
Geminia999

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Mermails have some really game-breaking cards 2 use at practically no cost. Even when LTGY comes its not gonna stop a ton of duelists frokm playing mermail.

The only real game breaking card they have is linde/sphere, but just hit sphere and that problem alleviates itself since now you either draw linde or let your opponent know you've added it to your hand. All the atlanteans are just simple one for ones, Megalo isn't broken at all, and he isn't no other mermail is broken. Gaios has his limits so he's pretty fine as well.

So please specify your choice as game-breaking?

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#14
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G.A.M definetly still a T1 deck.
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#15
skullvarnish

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The only real game breaking card they have is linde/sphere, but just hit sphere and that problem alleviates itself since now you either draw linde or let your opponent know you've added it to your hand. All the atlanteans are just simple one for ones, Megalo isn't broken at all, and he isn't no other mermail is broken. Gaios has his limits so he's pretty fine as well.

So please specify your choice as game-breaking?

It could be argued that the Atlanteans are broken. They are 1 for 1s, yes, but the way they're used is pretty game breaking. They're used to dodge costs and create easy +1 or +2 plays with the Mermails. And personally, I think cost dodging is one of the more cancerous trends to come into this game.


Are you serious? I am the best player in the game today. I started out with a Kuriboh as my boss monster, and have since climbed up the ladder of success. I am willing to break my back having to carry a team. Some say that there is no "I" in 'team," but what if I am the entire team? I'll carry this team across the river, to Victory Island. We'll pull out the champagne, with the ladies surrounding us. With a cigar in my mouth, I'll deliver the final speech. Our pilgrimage is complete. Our lives are over. The perpetual euphoria has been reached. The impossible has happened. You ask yourself if what has just transpired can possibly be real. I am no miracle worker, but I do have heart. And sometimes with a little bit of heart and some imagination, the world is yours for the taking. -Inflation




Holy shit skullvarnish, give me classes on how to burn the fuck out of people like that PLEASE




#16
Geminia999

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It could be argued that the Atlanteans are broken. They are 1 for 1s, yes, but the way they're used is pretty game breaking. They're used to dodge costs and create easy +1 or +2 plays with the Mermails. And personally, I think cost dodging is one of the more cancerous trends to come into this game.

Well the thing is, most of those costs they are avoiding aren't even there on other cards. I mean, stratos searches any hero on any summon yet Pike and sturge are limited by level and discard. Most of these costs really shouldn't be there (another Tidal, 2 from hand for a single mill). A lot of those costs there are to justify their eff essentially just making them just their 1 for 1s. I just really don't see it as such an issue here besides with a select few monsters (Undine for starters). I just think that this isn't really all that bad.

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#17
skullvarnish

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Well the thing is, most of those costs they are avoiding aren't even there on other cards. I mean, stratos searches any hero on any summon yet Pike and sturge are limited by level and discard. Most of these costs really shouldn't be there (another Tidal, 2 from hand for a single mill). A lot of those costs there are to justify their eff essentially just making them just their 1 for 1s. I just really don't see it as such an issue here besides with a select few monsters (Undine for starters). I just think that this isn't really all that bad.

That's the thing though. The costs shouldn't even be there. The Mermails are incredibly balanced on their own. They only have cost to make Atlanteans broken with them. It's this crazy thing where because they have costs, they're actually more OP then they would be without. Still the Atlanteans's fault though.


Are you serious? I am the best player in the game today. I started out with a Kuriboh as my boss monster, and have since climbed up the ladder of success. I am willing to break my back having to carry a team. Some say that there is no "I" in 'team," but what if I am the entire team? I'll carry this team across the river, to Victory Island. We'll pull out the champagne, with the ladies surrounding us. With a cigar in my mouth, I'll deliver the final speech. Our pilgrimage is complete. Our lives are over. The perpetual euphoria has been reached. The impossible has happened. You ask yourself if what has just transpired can possibly be real. I am no miracle worker, but I do have heart. And sometimes with a little bit of heart and some imagination, the world is yours for the taking. -Inflation




Holy shit skullvarnish, give me classes on how to burn the fuck out of people like that PLEASE




#18
! ! ! !Rainbow Dash

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Can anyone provide me with a sample list of what Mermails generally look like post LTGY? I'm not quite sure of how many changes the deck has made with Tidal and Stream, and I don't really have a very reliable source to base a build on.

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#19
Geminia999

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That's the thing though. The costs shouldn't even be there. The Mermails are incredibly balanced on their own. They only have cost to make Atlanteans broken with them. It's this crazy thing where because they have costs, they're actually more OP then they would be without. Still the Atlanteans's fault though.

But that brings in the idea that you really are just using the atlanteans as these pops and not for their own swarming capabilities. I mean they are options with diva but most of their use is just as these one for ones. While I guess that's what you don't like, I feel it still balances them out then.

Anyways, we really need Armor Kappa. It would have been so much better than sonic warrior as an import. Eh, maybe Number Hunters then?

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#20
skullvarnish

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But that brings in the idea that you really are just using the atlanteans as these pops and not for their own swarming capabilities. I mean they are options with diva but most of their use is just as these one for ones. While I guess that's what you don't like, I feel it still balances them out then.

Anyways, we really need Armor Kappa. It would have been so much better than sonic warrior as an import. Eh, maybe Number Hunters then?

I use them for both honestly. The fact that they have 2 effects each makes them very versatile.


Are you serious? I am the best player in the game today. I started out with a Kuriboh as my boss monster, and have since climbed up the ladder of success. I am willing to break my back having to carry a team. Some say that there is no "I" in 'team," but what if I am the entire team? I'll carry this team across the river, to Victory Island. We'll pull out the champagne, with the ladies surrounding us. With a cigar in my mouth, I'll deliver the final speech. Our pilgrimage is complete. Our lives are over. The perpetual euphoria has been reached. The impossible has happened. You ask yourself if what has just transpired can possibly be real. I am no miracle worker, but I do have heart. And sometimes with a little bit of heart and some imagination, the world is yours for the taking. -Inflation




Holy shit skullvarnish, give me classes on how to burn the fuck out of people like that PLEASE




#21
Geminia999

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Can anyone provide me with a sample list of what Mermails generally look like post LTGY? I'm not quite sure of how many changes the deck has made with Tidal and Stream, and I don't really have a very reliable source to base a build on.

The future! http://forum.dueling...ing-water-deck/

I use them for both honestly. The fact that they have 2 effects each makes them very versatile.

But the the whole idea of "Mono" mermails is the whole focus on mermails aspect. They literally are there just to be discarded in that deck and maybe normal summon with diva every once in a while. The atlanteans do have that nice aspect to them, but it really doesn't seem like those will be showing themselves any time soon (especially against E-drags or prophecy were you'll be lucky to get in some damage with marksman).

Hey, who wants to discuss the validity of a Pure atlantean deck by telling me how to fix mine?
http://forum.duelingnetwork.com/index.php?/topic/77463-real-life-pure-atlanteans/

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#22
ck49

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Can anyone provide me with a sample list of what Mermails generally look like post LTGY? I'm not quite sure of how many changes the deck has made with Tidal and Stream, and I don't really have a very reliable source to base a build on.

http://i.imgur.com/74ru7JU.png
this is the build I've been using, though i can't say its exactly standard. BTS is useful for Dragosack, LaDD, and most importantly, Ophion. I've found that I like it better than the genex engine, since the genex cards add inconsistencies to the deck (no one wants to draw controller). I also run 2 stream/3tidal, while a lot of people run 1 stream 2 tidal, but I feel like going into rank 7s is the way to go and tidal basically is a free level 7 every turn. Also, both Tidal and Stream are discard outlets. I also only run 2 abyss cards, but I felt like squall isn't too useful when you're banishing cards for tidal and you don't really need 3 sphere. I've seen people run Abyss-scale of the Kraken, which could be an interesting tech in too.
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#23
HappyTheCatSky

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Aparently water can make shock master utilising 2 overlooked mermail monsters(Oceabyss and abyssmander)

 

A possible play is:

 

Pitch mander for teus,search ocea

 

Summon ocea,banish mader from grave,increase mermails level by 1

 

use ocea eff,send teus to grave and get 2 level 4 mermails

 

shockyyy


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#24
skullvarnish

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Aparently water can make shock master utilising 2 overlooked mermail monsters(Oceabyss and abyssmander)

 

A possible play is:

 

Pitch mander for teus,search ocea

 

Summon ocea,banish mader from grave,increase mermails level by 1

 

use ocea eff,send teus to grave and get 2 level 4 mermails

 

shockyyy

How consistent is that play? Because if it's consistent, Water now has what they need to do well this format.



Are you serious? I am the best player in the game today. I started out with a Kuriboh as my boss monster, and have since climbed up the ladder of success. I am willing to break my back having to carry a team. Some say that there is no "I" in 'team," but what if I am the entire team? I'll carry this team across the river, to Victory Island. We'll pull out the champagne, with the ladies surrounding us. With a cigar in my mouth, I'll deliver the final speech. Our pilgrimage is complete. Our lives are over. The perpetual euphoria has been reached. The impossible has happened. You ask yourself if what has just transpired can possibly be real. I am no miracle worker, but I do have heart. And sometimes with a little bit of heart and some imagination, the world is yours for the taking. -Inflation




Holy shit skullvarnish, give me classes on how to burn the fuck out of people like that PLEASE




#25
Geminia999

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How consistent is that play? Because if it's consistent, Water now has what they need to do well this format.

It's as consistent as how fast you can get mander in grave. Though to make a Mander build I really do suggest dropping the Atlanteans.

 

Anyways, I suppose I could try a shock master considering my build is able to do that easily (though I still prefer the triple shark combo).


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